well, in case we were to have a polite aesthetic discussion about what's posted here i can't see why that shouldn't be done in public... in fact i think it SHOULD be done in public.
no thats cool. glitch : i understand your point. incidentally, cuts dont really hurt. i mainly cut for the blood, because i wish we had no skin and could see all of our insides, know what it's like on the other side of the skin. there is a general fear/disgust/misconception of blood, which is to me very symptomatic. because blood is rarely seen unless in case of "accident", it is associated with death. to me, it means life. it carries life. it IS life. and there are so many things in our present times that, because they are not surface layer components, are demonised and linked to death to an extent. i want to fight that. i want to see what's under it all, and walow in it. why does blood turn me on and freak 99% of the population out? i want to find the answer to that.
also, i have come to a point where drawing nice figures through words and paper is just not enough. at some point art penetrates the flesh. then it becomes something else, more fundamental. it starts to matter more, and because we're on the internet we have such a remote and cold perception of art, gee we're posting all of that through a network and see it on a screen, sometimes its frustrating. to me art has to be felt with the body, the actual flesh, and more than just one sense. so those pictures are an attempt at bringing the human/animal factor back. if it ever was there.
because i sometimes feel that i'm faking it if i'm not integreting myself thouroughly in it. you know, its just so easy to trace a few words. well, not easy, and i can hurt like hell too, but i wanna give more of my self than just thoughts.
also, i do value toughness, true. and i do think that you've got to go through a lot if you want to become stronger. and that means both physically and mentally. but, like i said, the cut didnt/doesnt hurt that much. it was more of a statement of equality, because sometimes dominants in SM relationships dish out a lot but dont take anything.
it's great how you're so articulate about what you do, i'm glad i got you started.
i see your point, even if i don't share it very much.
i don't think you (well, meaning anyone, not just you in particular) are gonna be more radical by walking the blood performance art path than walking the writing path. in fact i think the writing path can be more radical. you just have to be a fucking good committed writer. and i think you sometimes are a brilliant writer, honest.
whatever path you choose is fine if you think that's what suits you.
you can be brilliant in the blood performance area but personally i think it's an artistic cul-de-sac.
toughness is ok, you have to be. in fact everyone of that 99% of the population you mention are probably very tough in many ways. don't get angry at me, but i don't believe toughness is too particularly productive in the art field, even if quite a lot of sometimes valuable works of art have been produced out of it. i mean, i love my iggy and i love my gina pane as much as the next guy, i think people as hermann nitch and the viennese actionists have a point, but i think we have to go somewhere else (yeah, in a way i think blood performance is artistically "trading water").
ok, i may not have a lot of radical inspiring works to my name to back me, but i don't think that invalidates my point.
which is, put in a provocative way, just to stimulate you:
flesh is but a fabric. beneath lies everything. but not beneath the flesh. there is only sinew and muscle. as for pain, real phsyical, desperate pain, i think i can probably beat most folks here hands down on that score. but this is not a competition is it? under the skin is just blood. turned red by oxygen. it is not real. nothing but hydraulics for the pale reflection of our physicallity. here, deep down HERE, is where i live. i have had fits, heart attacks, panic attacks, fights, face smashed to fuck, teeth gone. pain? no. real pain is seeing one of mine hurt. that fucks you so badly that it defies description. art is what is on the inside and can never truly come out. words are insufficent. images too. music is just a ghost. what we acheive here is a scratch on the skin of mundananity. of life. of living. your art wolfie is NOT the cut marks because it doesn't show us anything we don't know. it is what is inside that we want. x
i agree that pain is emotional involvement. i know what pain is. it's what makes me swallow poison because i cant take it.
this (cuts, blood) has nothing to do with pain, it barely hurts and is an element of a sexual ritual that is a celebration of life and struggle and fire. the intensity of it can be somehow painful, but thats not the point. physical pain, like pleasure, are side effects. i know i wont agree with a lot on that one, but that what i believe and how it feels to me. i dont care about physical pain.
i care about TRUE pain, i just need to not dwell too long on it, for my own sake. and fucking in blood is a cure for it.
those pics are depicting a reality that most know, indeed, but there is more to them than just that.
oh whatever. i'm not trying to defend anything. i am just doing. the done defends itself in silence biding its time.
half the point was the fact you must give more than what you take if you're to be consistent.
the other half is laying its three eggs.
that being said being fiercely opposed to any division of the mind and the body, i still dont think flesh is just flesh. and being a witch i know that whatever you do with your blood holds more weight than if you do it with crimson acrylic paint. i'm not fucking around, or being provocative for the sake of it. i'm uttering things that are heard and by hidden organs.
whatever. you have my full approval to do what ever it is that you want to do. your art is your art. funny thing is i have been looking for some new blood (no pun intended) to add an edge, a new impetutus (not that i am unhappy with what is being done)to discharge. looks like you have single handidly done that. more power to you.
24 comments:
as ritchie manics
or the iggy
holy fuck!
i guess i must be useless...
ps:
i thought it would come to this.....
useless? YOU? never.
glitch : come to what?
la madre que te parió, wolf, qué dura eres
i don't know, wolf
when you engage with pain in a certain way...
you may do as you please, there's not necessarily a bad criticism implied on my part
the physical depiction of blood
i assume it's you and x on it, otherwise it doesn't make sense
i don't know i'm...disengaged
where does it lead?
does it mean anything?
i don't think you should give a fuck anyway
do you just wanna show how tough you are?
maybe i'm unfair...
maybe you don't want to discuss...
maybe better done by e-mail
better by email?
why?
because dozens of people read this and maybe, just maybe it is better done in private
well, in case we were to have a polite aesthetic discussion about what's posted here i can't see why that shouldn't be done in public...
in fact i think it SHOULD be done in public.
okay. up to you both.
but both.
and yes, now it is here and in a form of art it is very much open to public debate i was just trying to think of wolf.
don't worry, cj, i'm not gonna talk to myself, nor rant at wolf while she stays silent. nothing like that.
i pretty much admire her in many ways.
i just think that dangerous sometimes is...dangerous.
ok. cool.
love and peace and all that hippy shit.
x
no thats cool.
glitch : i understand your point.
incidentally, cuts dont really hurt. i mainly cut for the blood, because i wish we had no skin and could see all of our insides, know what it's like on the other side of the skin.
there is a general fear/disgust/misconception of blood, which is to me very symptomatic.
because blood is rarely seen unless in case of "accident", it is associated with death. to me, it means life. it carries life. it IS life.
and there are so many things in our present times that, because they are not surface layer components, are demonised and linked to death to an extent.
i want to fight that.
i want to see what's under it all, and walow in it.
why does blood turn me on and freak 99% of the population out? i want to find the answer to that.
also, i have come to a point where drawing nice figures through words and paper is just not enough. at some point art penetrates the flesh.
then it becomes something else, more fundamental. it starts to matter more, and because we're on the internet we have such a remote and cold perception of art, gee we're posting all of that through a network and see it on a screen, sometimes its frustrating. to me art has to be felt with the body, the actual flesh, and more than just one sense.
so those pictures are an attempt at bringing the human/animal factor back. if it ever was there.
because i sometimes feel that i'm faking it if i'm not integreting myself thouroughly in it. you know, its just so easy to trace a few words. well, not easy, and i can hurt like hell too, but i wanna give more of my self than just thoughts.
also,
i do value toughness, true. and i do think that you've got to go through a lot if you want to become stronger. and that means both physically and mentally.
but, like i said, the cut didnt/doesnt hurt that much. it was more of a statement of equality, because sometimes dominants in SM relationships dish out a lot but dont take anything.
it's very interesting that you said about s/m
it's great how you're so articulate about what you do, i'm glad i got you started.
i see your point, even if i don't share it very much.
i don't think you (well, meaning anyone, not just you in particular)
are gonna be more radical by walking the blood performance art path than walking the writing path.
in fact i think the writing path can be more radical. you just have to be a fucking good committed writer. and i think you sometimes are a brilliant writer, honest.
whatever path you choose is fine if you think that's what suits you.
you can be brilliant in the blood performance area but personally i think it's an artistic cul-de-sac.
toughness is ok, you have to be. in fact everyone of that 99% of the population you mention are probably very tough in many ways. don't get angry at me, but i don't believe toughness is too particularly productive in the art field, even if quite a lot of sometimes valuable works of art have been produced out of it. i mean, i love my iggy and i love my gina pane as much as the next guy, i think people as hermann nitch and the viennese actionists have a point, but i think we have to go somewhere else (yeah, in a way i think blood performance is artistically "trading water").
ok, i may not have a lot of radical inspiring works to my name to back me, but i don't think that invalidates my point.
which is, put in a provocative way, just to stimulate you:
YOUR RADICAL IS NOT RADICAL ENOUGH
(LET'S) KEEP THINKING
KEEP FAILING
FAIL BEAUTIFULLY
blood is life when INSIDE the body, pal!
flesh is but a fabric.
beneath lies everything.
but not beneath the flesh.
there is only sinew and muscle.
as for pain, real phsyical, desperate pain, i think i can probably beat most folks here hands down on that score.
but this is not a competition is it?
under the skin is just blood. turned red by oxygen. it is not real. nothing but hydraulics for the pale reflection of our physicallity. here, deep down HERE, is where i live. i have had fits, heart attacks, panic attacks, fights, face smashed to fuck, teeth gone.
pain?
no.
real pain is seeing one of mine hurt. that fucks you so badly that it defies description.
art is what is on the inside and can never truly come out. words are insufficent. images too. music is just a ghost.
what we acheive here is a scratch on the skin of mundananity. of life. of living.
your art wolfie is NOT the cut marks because it doesn't show us anything we don't know. it is what is inside that we want.
x
i agree that pain is emotional involvement. i know what pain is. it's what makes me swallow poison because i cant take it.
this (cuts, blood) has nothing to do with pain, it barely hurts and is an element of a sexual ritual that is a celebration of life and struggle and fire. the intensity of it can be somehow painful, but thats not the point.
physical pain, like pleasure, are side effects.
i know i wont agree with a lot on that one, but that what i believe and how it feels to me. i dont care about physical pain.
i care about TRUE pain, i just need to not dwell too long on it, for my own sake.
and fucking in blood is a cure for it.
those pics are depicting a reality that most know, indeed, but there is more to them than just that.
oh whatever.
i'm not trying to defend anything.
i am just doing.
the done defends itself in silence biding its time.
half the point was the fact you must give more than what you take if you're to be consistent.
the other half is laying its three eggs.
that being said
being fiercely opposed to any division of the mind and the body,
i still dont think flesh is just flesh.
and
being a witch
i know that whatever you do with your blood holds more weight than if you do it with crimson acrylic paint.
i'm not fucking around, or being provocative for the sake of it.
i'm uttering things that are heard and by hidden organs.
XXXX
wolf.
whatever. you have my full approval to do what ever it is that you want to do. your art is your art. funny thing is i have been looking for some new blood (no pun intended) to add an edge, a new impetutus (not that i am unhappy with what is being done)to discharge.
looks like you have single handidly done that. more power to you.
fascinating
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